So you say the Mexican border is no big deal?

The new al-Qaida field commander in Afghanistan is calling
for Muslims to leave the U.S. – particularly Washington and
New York – in anticipation of a major terror attack to rival
Sept. 11, according to an interview by a Pakistani journalist.

Abu Dawood told Hamid Mir, a reporter who has covered
al-Qaida and met with Osama bin Laden, the attack is being
coordinated by Adnan el-Shukrijumah and suggests it may
involve some form of weapon of mass destruction smuggled
across the Mexican border.

"Our brothers are ready to attack inside America. We will
breach their security again," he is quoted as saying. "There
is no timeframe for our attack inside America; we can do it
any time."

As WND has previously reported, el-Shukrijumah is a trained
nuclear technician and accomplished pilot who has been
singled out by bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri to serve as
the field commander for the next terrorist attack on U.S. soil.

The terrorist was last seen in Mexico, where, on Nov. 1,
2004, he allegedly hijacked a Piper PA Pawnee cropduster
from Ejido Queretaro near Mexicali to transport a nuclear
weapon and nuclear equipment into the U.S., according to
Paul Williams, a former FBI consultant and author of "The
Dunces of Doomsday."

It would be hard to believe the terrorist would be dumb enough to go to
Mexico. I might actually feel sorry for them if they did. The Mexican
gov't isn't going to toss them in prison and give then 4 squares a day.
They'll be just like the prisoners in Gitmo, begging to be kept under
U.S. control.

-Robert


ElmerFudd wrote:
> The terrorist was last seen in Mexico, where, on Nov. 1,
> 2004, he allegedly hijacked a Piper PA Pawnee cropduster
> from Ejido Queretaro near Mexicali to transport a nuclear
> weapon and nuclear equipment into the U.S., according to
> Paul Williams, a former FBI consultant and author of "The
> Dunces of Doomsday."

Mexico is almost as corrupt as Pakistan. What are the chances terrorists
operating in Mexico would even come to the attention of Mexican authorities?
If they did become known to Mexican police, for example, pretty darn likely
the terrorists could make a charitable donation to the policeman's
retirement fund and come north to kill gringos as if nothing happened.

There are reasons why Muslim terrorists would likely come over the northern
border but coming over the Mexican border seems as difficult as falling out
of bed.

--

Scott

tscottme wrote:
> Mexico is almost as corrupt as Pakistan. What are the chances terrorists
> operating in Mexico would even come to the attention of Mexican authorities?
> If they did become known to Mexican police, for example, pretty darn likely
> the terrorists could make a charitable donation to the policeman's
> retirement fund and come north to kill gringos as if nothing happened.
>
> There are reasons why Muslim terrorists would likely come over the northern
> border but coming over the Mexican border seems as difficult as falling out
> of bed.

First, coming to Mexico is not anywhere as easy as coming to the U.S.
(with the exception of U.S. citizens). Mexico has VERY strict
immigration laws and getting residency is a difficult process.
Second, although there is some corruption in the area of traffic fines
and even some corporate legal issues, they don't screw around with
non/Mexicans. They consider it offensive for someone to come to their
country and cause problems. I hope the terrorist like easting fish
heads in a Mexican prison vs. getting Filet O'Fish in Gitmo.
Mexicans have a lot of national and ethnic pride and aren't too excited
about people coming into their country to cause problems.
Third, Mexicans are catholic no if-ands-or-buts about it. Muslims
living in Mexico would stand out like a soar thumb.

-Robert, frequent flying visitor to the beautiful country of Mexico

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> tscottme wrote:
>> Mexico is almost as corrupt as Pakistan. What are the chances terrorists
>> operating in Mexico would even come to the attention of Mexican
>> authorities?
>> If they did become known to Mexican police, for example, pretty darn
>> likely
>> the terrorists could make a charitable donation to the policeman's
>> retirement fund and come north to kill gringos as if nothing happened.
>>
>> There are reasons why Muslim terrorists would likely come over the
>> northern
>> border but coming over the Mexican border seems as difficult as falling
>> out
>> of bed.
>
>First, coming to Mexico is not anywhere as easy as coming to the U.S. (with
>the exception of U.S. citizens). Mexico has VERY strict immigration laws
>and getting >residency is a difficult process.

And you don't think that a well-funded, well-organized terrorist
organization could forge papers?

>Second, although there is some corruption in the area of traffic fines and
>even some corporate legal issues, they don't screw around with
>non/Mexicans. They >consider it offensive for someone to come to their
>country and cause problems. I hope the terrorist like easting fish heads in
>a Mexican prison vs. getting Filet >O'Fish in Gitmo.

No, they consider it offensive if you don't grease their palms. Remember,
this is the country that wanted $500 USD just to drive into TJ from San
Diego or into Nogales, SON from Nogales, AZ but of course <el winko, el
winko> you'll get your money back when you leave Mexico...

Yeah, Right...

>Mexicans have a lot of national and ethnic pride and aren't too excited
>about people coming into their country to cause problems.

Horse ****. If this were true, they'd stay home and fix there own problems
instead of invading the US.

>Third, Mexicans are catholic no if-ands-or-buts about it. Muslims living in
>Mexico would stand out like a soar thumb.

Um, ok, what, exactly, does a Muslim look like? Even if you're naive enough
to think that they all look like the Taliban, ever hear of this little thing
called a razor?

Actually, a Saudi or Yemeni without a beard wearing jeans, a plaid shirt,
cowboy boots and a white, straw cowboy hat is going to look a lot like many
of the Mexican day laborers I see here in the Phoenix area.

Behind closed doors, you could have thousands of people in Mexico facing
Mecca five times a day and you'd never know it.

Get real.

> -Robert, frequent flying visitor to the beautiful country of Mexico

You must be doing your IFR training down there because, IMO, you are
seriously wearing blinders.

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> tscottme wrote:
>> Mexico is almost as corrupt as Pakistan. What are the chances terrorists
>> operating in Mexico would even come to the attention of Mexican
>> authorities?
>> If they did become known to Mexican police, for example, pretty darn
>> likely
>> the terrorists could make a charitable donation to the policeman's
>> retirement fund and come north to kill gringos as if nothing happened.
>>
>> There are reasons why Muslim terrorists would likely come over the
>> northern
>> border but coming over the Mexican border seems as difficult as falling
>> out
>> of bed.
>
> First, coming to Mexico is not anywhere as easy as coming to the U.S.
> (with the exception of U.S. citizens). Mexico has VERY strict
> immigration laws and getting residency is a difficult process.
> Second, although there is some corruption in the area of traffic fines
> and even some corporate legal issues, they don't screw around with
> non/Mexicans. They consider it offensive for someone to come to their
> country and cause problems. I hope the terrorist like easting fish
> heads in a Mexican prison vs. getting Filet O'Fish in Gitmo.
> Mexicans have a lot of national and ethnic pride and aren't too excited
> about people coming into their country to cause problems.
> Third, Mexicans are catholic no if-ands-or-buts about it. Muslims
> living in Mexico would stand out like a soar thumb.
>
> -Robert, frequent flying visitor to the beautiful country of Mexico

Just google "OTM" or other than Mexican. There is plenty of evidence of
non-Mexicans already operating in Mexico and crossing the border with the
US. Yes Mexico seems to take their southern border more seriously than the
US takes its border, but even their southern border is not airtight.
Relatively poor people from a wide range of Central and South American
countries do penetrate the Mexican border. Just because the Mexican
government doesn't hand out welfare and accomodate illegal aliens as easily
as the US does doesn't speak to the difficilty of entering Mexico.

It's laughable to put faith in Mexico's system of legal immigration as
reason to doubt terrorists will immigrate to Mexico in preparation for a
move into the US. People that are planning to kill a million Americans, if
they can, aren't above ignoring Mexican immigration law. It's also darn
difficult to obtain legal US permission to permanently live in the US as a
new citizen or perament resident, that's why multitudes ignore the legal
method and favor the illegal method.

Tell me how do the Central and Southern Americans we capture within eyesight
of the Mexico/US border cross that border, do they use Star Trek
teleportation or do they transit Mexico. Each OTM captured near the
southern border of the US is airtight proof of my point and against your
argument.

Still, I believe the bigger threat is from the border with Canada. There is
a much, much larger immigrant population. and Canadians visitors aren't
suspected like Mexico visitors.

--

Scott


Muslims Prove Papal Infallibility -- Alan W. Dowd

http://tinyurl.com/hd6ns

Jay Beckman wrote:
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
> And you don't think that a well-funded, well-organized terrorist
> organization could forge papers?

If they were smart they would come to the U.S. Its much easier to get
in and they'd have more like minded people. Plus, if they got caught,
no one would kiss there ass as much as American prisons. Gitmo is quite
a nice tropical getaway.

> No, they consider it offensive if you don't grease their palms. Remember,
> this is the country that wanted $500 USD just to drive into TJ from San
> Diego or into Nogales, SON from Nogales, AZ but of course <el winko, el
> winko> you'll get your money back when you leave Mexico...

Not sure where you get your information. Haven't seen that. Lots of
great rumors though out there about Mexico. Kinda like UFO stories.

> >Mexicans have a lot of national and ethnic pride and aren't too excited
> >about people coming into their country to cause problems.
>
> Horse ****. If this were true, they'd stay home and fix there own problems
> instead of invading the US.

What percentage of Mexicans do you really think are in the U.S.? Would
you be surprised to learn that the majority choose to stay in Mexico?

You seem to claim to know quite a bit about Mexico. How frequently do
you go?

BTW: When I was clearing back through U.S. customs coming back from
Canada in my Mooney the agent told me the U.S. is far more concerned
about Canada than Mexico. Anyone can get into Canada. Mexico has tight
borders, Canada has a welcome mat.

-Robert

But Mexican borders aren't tight enough, as tight as they may be.

http://www.kvoa.com/global/story.asp?s=3655392&ClientType=Printable

June 2005
The number of Other than Mexican or OTM apprehensions is up more than 30%
from this time last year, and that's causing logistical and financial
problems for the U.S. Government.

Border Patrol agents in the Tucson Sector have caught roughly 376,000
illegal entrants since last October 1st, which is the start of the 2005
fiscal year. About 9,400 of them are from countries other than Mexico.

"Out of the 9,400, approximately 8,000 have been from Central American
countries," says Border Patrol Agent Jose Garza.


--

Scott


Muslims Prove Papal Infallibility -- Alan W. Dowd

http://tinyurl.com/hd6ns
"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> BTW: When I was clearing back through U.S. customs coming back from
> Canada in my Mooney the agent told me the U.S. is far more concerned
> about Canada than Mexico. Anyone can get into Canada. Mexico has tight
> borders, Canada has a welcome mat.
>
> -Robert
>

Robert M. Gary wrote:

>
>
> What percentage of Mexicans do you really think are in the U.S.? Would
> you be surprised to learn that the majority choose to stay in Mexico?
>
> You seem to claim to know quite a bit about Mexico. How frequently do
> you go?
>

I don't know a lot about Mexico, but I know a lot about the importation
of poverty to Southen California, principally from Mexico.

I also know the Los Angeles Times (a liberal supporter of illegal
immigation in general) has twice published a survey that 70% of the
(remaining) citizens of Mexico would immigrate to the United States,
legally or illegally if they thought they could get work (keep in mind
this includes skilled and educated Mexicans, unlike the genrally very
poorly educated folks who have come across to date (some 12 million of
them, at least).

I am tired of my area hospital rooms being loaded up will illegals using
the ER as their free family doctor. This has resulted in the closing of
quite a few ERs throughout Southern Califorina; to the extent that your
life is now at risk if you get in bad auto crash in many parts of the
area because of lack of nearby ERs. And, distant ERs have been known to
turn away serious injuries because they are overwhelmed on occasion.

Mexico has a very corrupt govenment at most levels. How do I know this
with certainty. The LA Tines does a lot of coverage on it. A very good
friend of mine, a 35 year old Mexican immigrant when she was 18 keeps
reminding me about how bad it is for most people down there. She is a
very nice, very smart, very credible person. She, and five siblings
were illegals but granted ammentsy by Reagan,

tscottme wrote:
> But Mexican borders aren't tight enough, as tight as they may be.

Apparently, this is good news for Boeing:

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2006/q3/060921a_nr.html

I saw a quickie news brief on it and they didn't go into details on the
extent of the surveillance coverage areas, but I imagine it'll at least
focus on the known hot spots.

Not sure exactly what this all has to do with protecting against a
Piper, unless someone's attempting to push it over the border on the
ground ;)

Regards,
Jon

Sam Spade wrote:
> Robert M. Gary wrote:

> I don't know a lot about Mexico, but I know a lot about the importation
> of poverty to Southen California, principally from Mexico.

I 100% agree. The United States imports most of our poverty. We are a
very prosperous nation but will always import an underclass.

> I also know the Los Angeles Times (a liberal supporter of illegal
> immigation in general) has twice published a survey that 70% of the
> (remaining) citizens of Mexico would immigrate to the United States,
> legally or illegally if they thought they could get work (keep in mind
> this includes skilled and educated Mexicans, unlike the genrally very
> poorly educated folks who have come across to date (some 12 million of
> them, at least).

I find that hard to believe. I've rarely met anyone in Mexico (taxi
driver, bus boy, etc) who hasn't been to the U.S. They seem to want to
return. If 70% of Mexicans wanted to enter the U.S and stormed the
border, I don't think we'd stand a chance.

> I am tired of my area hospital rooms being loaded up will illegals using
> the ER as their free family doctor.

Agreed, but I'm not sure what it has to do with the ability for
terrorist to enter Mexico. I don't think many people would choose a
Mexican prison over a U.S. prison.

-Robert

Robert M. Gary > wrote:
>
> Sam Spade wrote:
>> Robert M. Gary wrote:
>
>> I don't know a lot about Mexico, but I know a lot about the importation
>> of poverty to Southen California, principally from Mexico.
>
> I 100% agree. The United States imports most of our poverty. We are a
> very prosperous nation but will always import an underclass.

Indeed.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

Can we get a volunteer to go scratch that off that statue in New York City?

Do I really need to put a emoticon on this?

--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR

Frank Stutzman wrote:
> Robert M. Gary > wrote:
>
>>Sam Spade wrote:
>>
>>>Robert M. Gary wrote:
>>
>>>I don't know a lot about Mexico, but I know a lot about the importation
>>>of poverty to Southen California, principally from Mexico.
>>
>>I 100% agree. The United States imports most of our poverty. We are a
>>very prosperous nation but will always import an underclass.
>
>
> Indeed.
>
> "Give me your tired, your poor,
> Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
> The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
> Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
> I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
>
> Can we get a volunteer to go scratch that off that statue in New York City?
>
> Do I really need to put a emoticon on this?

That was all about *legal* immigration, written at a time when this
country was underpopulated. Nothing is frozen in time, not even that
rhetoric.

Robert M. Gary wrote:

> Sam Spade wrote:

>
>
> I find that hard to believe. I've rarely met anyone in Mexico (taxi
> driver, bus boy, etc) who hasn't been to the U.S. They seem to want to
> return. If 70% of Mexicans wanted to enter the U.S and stormed the
> border, I don't think we'd stand a chance.
>
>Believe it or not, the Los Angeles Times published it. There are degrees of motivation. The Times did not give the impression that most of those interviewed were ready to "storm the border." Rather, they were expessing a prefence.

>>I am tired of my area hospital rooms being loaded up will illegals using
>>the ER as their free family doctor.
>
>
> Agreed, but I'm not sure what it has to do with the ability for
> terrorist to enter Mexico. I don't think many people would choose a
> Mexican prison over a U.S. prison.
>
I wasn't speaking of terrorist, rather I was contribution to a slight
bit of thread creep. ;-)

> wrote in message >
> Not sure exactly what this all has to do with protecting against a
> Piper, unless someone's attempting to push it over the border on the
> ground ;)
>


Ahh! But the DHS knows that the most dangerous Piper is the one you don't
expect to be pushed across several hundred miles of desert. ;-)

--

Scott

"Robert M. Gary" > writes:

> [...] What percentage of Mexicans do you really think are in the
> U.S.?

According to the least controversial numbers I've come across (10
million illegal + 100000/yr legal), it seems to be between 10 and 20%

> Would you be surprised to learn that the majority choose to stay in
> Mexico? [...]

If I lived in a nation where a mere majority of its citizens actually
wanted to live there, I would not be too proud.

- FChE

Back then there were even quotes for different countries. X number from
England, Y number from China etc. It certainly wasn't ever an open
door. Besides, we know who carved Lady Liberty and it wasn't an
American. ;)

-Robert


Sam Spade wrote:
> Frank Stutzman wrote:
> > "Give me your tired, your poor,
> > Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
> > The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
> > Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
> > I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
> >
> > Can we get a volunteer to go scratch that off that statue in New York City?
> >
> > Do I really need to put a emoticon on this?
>
> That was all about *legal* immigration, written at a time when this
> country was underpopulated. Nothing is frozen in time, not even that
> rhetoric.

Robert M. Gary wrote:

> Back then there were even quotes for different countries. X number from
> England, Y number from China etc. It certainly wasn't ever an open
> door. Besides, we know who carved Lady Liberty and it wasn't an
> American. ;)
>
Wee wee.